200 yard Moving Target Ranges

30 Oct 2009 12:39 #111 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Presumably the MTRs are mentioned in Station ORBs so it may be worth adding one to my list to look at at TNA now I have caught the (TNA) bug :)
But which one?

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30 Oct 2009 16:04 #112 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges

Station ORBs

Be prepared for some surprises, Peter

I have found these to be unbelievably variable in quality. There was clearly no British Standard on 'How to write an ORB'.

As an example years ago I was researching MUs - I just wanted briefly to know what their function was. An AIR29/xxxx is usually a bound volume often containing a number of individual ORBs. e.g. 55 MU to 59MU.

The first one you look at may well tell you nothing apart from what the weather was doing on a particular day, which AVM visited the site, and how many of the staff visited the VD clinic. At the end of 200 pages you know nothing about the unit. In one instance I never found out what its function was.

The next ORB begins "No.XX MU opened on the 23 Aug 1941, under the command of Sqn Ldr zzzzzzz. The function of the unit is to supply MT spares to airfields in southern Lincolnshire and Rutland. The HQ is at aaaaaa, the following buildings have been requisitioned as stores - bbbb, cccc, dddd, eee. In addition Fred Bloggs garage at 77 High Street will be used for repairs". Excellent stuff.

The Thornaby ORB is good up to around 1940. Throughout the whole of the BoB period it tells you nothing, apart from the weather, and the daily number of amber and red alerts. OK is wasn't an 11 Group station but it did have its share of excitement during the period.

Often far more interesting are the ORB appendices (not all ORBs have them) They often contain photos, drawings and details about particular functions of a station. Again very variable. Here's a quote from another thread on the forum:

Had a look at the Elsham ORBs in TNA on a recent visit. I was interested in the GCA tests carried out with Bomber Command c.July 1943.
There are two ORBs - one covering 1941-45, and the other was the Appendices (similar dates). The ORB itself was very boring and produced nothing relating to GCA.
Very often, however, ORB Appendices are much more fruitful - providing detailed information regarding specific incidents at the station. The Elsham one was excellent to the summer of 1942. There is then an 18 month gap and its gets good again from January 1944 onwards. There is not a single entry for this missing period. Very disappointing, and have no idea of the reason.

Graham

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:

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30 Oct 2009 20:18 #113 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
I must admit having looked at Wittering I think I will write an article on the films shown at the cinema! A lot more info on that front :)

Having said that one might throw up some gems. I assume that reference to Stormy Down's MTR in Ivor Jone's book must have come from the ORB. Likewise the Evanton reference to turret training on the Novar Estate.

Does anyone know if the Tain MTR was the one used by Evanton? Evanton certainly used the nearby bombing ranges.

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31 Oct 2009 10:35 #114 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
And another one!

Morpeth seems to have its range located on the coast at Ashington at NZ304857.

This must have meant a bit of a ride each time for a practice.

Attached files [IMG]/community/33671=618-Ashington MTR.jpg[/img]

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31 Oct 2009 15:38 #115 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges

And another one! Morpeth

Excellent Peter - we'll soon have all 13 now:-D. I'd love to know when the MTRs were proposed.

I recently came to the assumption that these ranges were proposed early WWII. This is based on Warmwell, however most of the other evidence suggests 1941/42 ish.

Now that we know the Air Observation Schools were responsible for gunnery practise a few things fall into place.

Morpeth was designed as a fighter satellite, becoming an AGS in 1942, along with Mona (Mona - a possibility?).

Further to a remark I made earlier, Wigtown became an AOS in 1942, so I'm now happy that it had an MTR.

Bishop's Court was by 1943 an AOS, then an AGS.

Staverton was briefly an AOS in 1943, having been a navigation school - it later became an (O)AFU. I think we can rule that one out.

Graham

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:

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31 Oct 2009 15:57 #116 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
I have a scan of page 748 (AP 3236) on my office wall. It sits there taunting me!

Can we definitely pair of some locations which could have shared MTRs?

I have focused on Evanton but having no luck but if it used the MTR at Tain that would explain it.

Mona in Vol.3 of Ivor Jones trilogy makes no mention of MTRs but does state the used clay pigeon shooting to practice reaction and deflection.
Cheaper version maybe?

Bishops Court is one I haven't looked at yet as NI is a little more difficult.
I did look at Greencastle, Kilkeel and Derryogue for the USAAF version but no luck as yet.

It's funny looking back a few months I noted that MTRs were all sorted.
Next project ; Station sewage farms still in use as designed. Never got started :)

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31 Oct 2009 22:04 #117 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Could this be the remains of an MTR just NE of Bishops Court?

The shape of the bit just right of centre look like it and the aerial photos on Getmapping show something but not clear enough to have any degree of certainty.

Attached files [IMG]/community/33727=624-Bishops Court poss.jpg[/img]

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01 Nov 2009 18:29 #118 by Paul Francis
Replied by Paul Francis on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Can we have a list update please with NGRs off course

You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!

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01 Nov 2009 18:35 #119 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
You certainly can, along with any assumptions which will be noted for comment or correction. Give me a day or two.

Now we have got it down to an Olympic spending committee dozen :)

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01 Nov 2009 20:58 #120 by P Bellamy
Replied by P Bellamy on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Guess who's found SIX of the elusive wartime photo's of Snettisham in operation.........!! :-D

To save cluttering this thread up I've started a dedicated one in the Training Schools folder HERE .

A Happy PB

Paul Bellamy

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