Avro Shackleton
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30 Aug 2016 10:26 - 30 Aug 2016 10:26 #51
by stevie
Replied by stevie on topic Avro Shackleton
It looks like thing's have fell through for WR963's restoration (courtesy of Facebook) -
A statement from Dave Woods,
Chairman of Trustees - Shackleton Preservation Trust (reg charity no 1020951)
Legal owner of Avro Shackleton WR963/G-SKTN
I first got involved with Shackleton WR963 in late 2008 just after ownership had been taken back by Mike Collet following the failed attempt by ASCET to return her to flight. The aircraft had three engines present at that time, and numerous systems damaged or non-functioning.
My first job was to remove the front spinner from the No3 engine which I managed without breaking anything, then shortly after as WR963 looked in a bit of a state the decision was taken to repaint her. The then Chairman (John Cubberley)knew well of my modeling skills and asked me to head up the painting team which I was happy to do, I just approached it like a big Airfix kit. The final painting was completed over the course of five days and has lasted well since.
Over time I established a good working relationship with the management at Coventry and Mike Collet in particular as we are both northern boys . When the SPT Chair's health took a turn and he decided it was time for him to step down I was invited to join the board of Trustees and later to become Chairman, this job involved steering the activities of the Trust in maintaining and operating WR963 on behalf of Air Atlantique, and raising enough money for the project to be self sufficient.
Mike must have been impressed as in 2011 he asked me to take over the running of Air Atlantique's "Airbase", who would turn down that opportunity? Not me - so I said "Yes please!", and we did rather well at it. Then in 2012 it was decided that the whole of CAF would be moved to a new facility in Cornwall. Mike at that time realised that moving the Shackleton and Nimrod was really not an option, so on being called to the office one day he offered the Shackleton to me.
Had I declined WR963 would have gone up for auction, and YES this would have also included the scrap man. What would you do, buy the aircraft that by now you have worked on for a number of years, or say "No thank you," in the knowledge that she could be turned into scrap? It was bit of a no brainer for me really, so I bought it - out of my own pocket I might add.
Some of you may ask why I bought it myself and not on behalf of the Trust, that is simple, at that time the Trust did not want the liability that may have come with the purchase (indeed there were howls of horror from the other Trustees when I proposed handing it over to the Trust), as this may well have included insurances and parking fees which are substantial for an aircraft of the Shackletons size and the Trust just did not have the funds to cover this.
Things were working well as they were, so I saw no reason for things to change so WR963 continued to be maintained and operated by the SPT as Mike had set up and all were happy with that arrangement. A few months later when Nimrod XV232 failed to sell, the transport cost was found to be astronomically high, and the aircraft was deteriorating rapidly, Mike asked me as Chairman to take it under the wing of the Trust on the same arrangement as WR963 had enjoyed, in that the aircraft would still belong to Mike but we - the Trust - would maintain and operate it. This the Trustees were happy to do as it would give us a nice little collection in its own right when all the other aircraft had departed, we would still have Shackleton, Nimrod and Shackleton Mk1 nose all together.
Time passed and we had highs and lows, members of the crew came and went as they do, then came 2015 and the Vulcan To The Sky day. The week before this saw WR963 up on jacks to change the brakes on both wheels to allow us to taxy on the day, it was a damn near run thing but we did it in front of the biggest crowd seen at Coventry in many years. We followed this up in April 2016 with a taxy run with paying passengers onboard, the first time this has been done EVER!!
The Trust at that time was solvent with plenty of cash in the bank, what I didn't know was that things were about to change and I'm afraid to say not for the better. WR963 became unserviceable and remains so to this day.
Where did it go wrong?
At the beginning of the year I asked the crew to hit all the usual sites with messages pushing the hangar Fund and the names on the bomb bay doors, they didn't want to do it, why? They were worried that it may be seen that we were spamming people. Thinking I may be pushing too hard and with my wife's failing health taking more of my time, I decided, wrongly, to let them run things largely their way. Things fell away further and faster than anticipated.
A small group of the newer members for whatever reason felt that they needed to have private meetings to which the Chair and members they didn't favour were not invited. The whole thing degenerated into a Saturday morning "boys and their toy" club and not a group of like minded people with a common goal. Things I asked of them as Chairman of the Trustees of SPT in an attempt to try and halt the decline were ignored.
Little to nothing has been done with the Heritage Lottery Fund Application which would have given the trust £70,0000 development funding , the "Friends of WR963" has been run down and ignored with no updates and newsletters since the first one under the new Membership Secretary, so that is another source of funding gone.
The result? Since the middle of May we have had just £338 in donations.
There can be no doubt that the unserviceability this year, little to no income from events (such as monthly public engine runs) combined with the huge expenditures has killed SPT. If we didn't have the Kickstarter funds the Trust would be out of funds completely now. The majority of the newer members treat this as if it is of no concern, the only idea that was brought up to raise funds is to scrap Nimrod XV232, I have to tell you that as long as I draw breath as Chairman I will not allow this.
To add to my stress level, this year new untrained members of crew have been put in positions on board the aircraft for private "test" runs when I wasn't on site. Not only is this poor behaviour from a safety point of view, it equates to some £3000 used in fuel this year alone for private - not public - "test" runs. Given I am the culpable person in that my name is on ALL the insurances, if there had been an incident and someone was injured or killed I would be facing criminal charges despite being 100 miles away at the time.
Speaking as the owner of the aircraft would you allow this to continue? I am no longer willing to let this happen so I have with the greatest reluctance removed ALL the insurances on the aircraft.
The SPT is now so divided that I doubt it can ever be brought back together. Weighing up all the above I feel I have had no choice but to call time on the work on WR963, and look to her preservation for future generations above all else.
As such I have to say that that brilliant dream of flight for the Shackleton is now gone.
Kind regards to all
Avro Shackleton WR963
A statement from Dave Woods,
Chairman of Trustees - Shackleton Preservation Trust (reg charity no 1020951)
Legal owner of Avro Shackleton WR963/G-SKTN
I first got involved with Shackleton WR963 in late 2008 just after ownership had been taken back by Mike Collet following the failed attempt by ASCET to return her to flight. The aircraft had three engines present at that time, and numerous systems damaged or non-functioning.
My first job was to remove the front spinner from the No3 engine which I managed without breaking anything, then shortly after as WR963 looked in a bit of a state the decision was taken to repaint her. The then Chairman (John Cubberley)knew well of my modeling skills and asked me to head up the painting team which I was happy to do, I just approached it like a big Airfix kit. The final painting was completed over the course of five days and has lasted well since.
Over time I established a good working relationship with the management at Coventry and Mike Collet in particular as we are both northern boys . When the SPT Chair's health took a turn and he decided it was time for him to step down I was invited to join the board of Trustees and later to become Chairman, this job involved steering the activities of the Trust in maintaining and operating WR963 on behalf of Air Atlantique, and raising enough money for the project to be self sufficient.
Mike must have been impressed as in 2011 he asked me to take over the running of Air Atlantique's "Airbase", who would turn down that opportunity? Not me - so I said "Yes please!", and we did rather well at it. Then in 2012 it was decided that the whole of CAF would be moved to a new facility in Cornwall. Mike at that time realised that moving the Shackleton and Nimrod was really not an option, so on being called to the office one day he offered the Shackleton to me.
Had I declined WR963 would have gone up for auction, and YES this would have also included the scrap man. What would you do, buy the aircraft that by now you have worked on for a number of years, or say "No thank you," in the knowledge that she could be turned into scrap? It was bit of a no brainer for me really, so I bought it - out of my own pocket I might add.
Some of you may ask why I bought it myself and not on behalf of the Trust, that is simple, at that time the Trust did not want the liability that may have come with the purchase (indeed there were howls of horror from the other Trustees when I proposed handing it over to the Trust), as this may well have included insurances and parking fees which are substantial for an aircraft of the Shackletons size and the Trust just did not have the funds to cover this.
Things were working well as they were, so I saw no reason for things to change so WR963 continued to be maintained and operated by the SPT as Mike had set up and all were happy with that arrangement. A few months later when Nimrod XV232 failed to sell, the transport cost was found to be astronomically high, and the aircraft was deteriorating rapidly, Mike asked me as Chairman to take it under the wing of the Trust on the same arrangement as WR963 had enjoyed, in that the aircraft would still belong to Mike but we - the Trust - would maintain and operate it. This the Trustees were happy to do as it would give us a nice little collection in its own right when all the other aircraft had departed, we would still have Shackleton, Nimrod and Shackleton Mk1 nose all together.
Time passed and we had highs and lows, members of the crew came and went as they do, then came 2015 and the Vulcan To The Sky day. The week before this saw WR963 up on jacks to change the brakes on both wheels to allow us to taxy on the day, it was a damn near run thing but we did it in front of the biggest crowd seen at Coventry in many years. We followed this up in April 2016 with a taxy run with paying passengers onboard, the first time this has been done EVER!!
The Trust at that time was solvent with plenty of cash in the bank, what I didn't know was that things were about to change and I'm afraid to say not for the better. WR963 became unserviceable and remains so to this day.
Where did it go wrong?
At the beginning of the year I asked the crew to hit all the usual sites with messages pushing the hangar Fund and the names on the bomb bay doors, they didn't want to do it, why? They were worried that it may be seen that we were spamming people. Thinking I may be pushing too hard and with my wife's failing health taking more of my time, I decided, wrongly, to let them run things largely their way. Things fell away further and faster than anticipated.
A small group of the newer members for whatever reason felt that they needed to have private meetings to which the Chair and members they didn't favour were not invited. The whole thing degenerated into a Saturday morning "boys and their toy" club and not a group of like minded people with a common goal. Things I asked of them as Chairman of the Trustees of SPT in an attempt to try and halt the decline were ignored.
Little to nothing has been done with the Heritage Lottery Fund Application which would have given the trust £70,0000 development funding , the "Friends of WR963" has been run down and ignored with no updates and newsletters since the first one under the new Membership Secretary, so that is another source of funding gone.
The result? Since the middle of May we have had just £338 in donations.
There can be no doubt that the unserviceability this year, little to no income from events (such as monthly public engine runs) combined with the huge expenditures has killed SPT. If we didn't have the Kickstarter funds the Trust would be out of funds completely now. The majority of the newer members treat this as if it is of no concern, the only idea that was brought up to raise funds is to scrap Nimrod XV232, I have to tell you that as long as I draw breath as Chairman I will not allow this.
To add to my stress level, this year new untrained members of crew have been put in positions on board the aircraft for private "test" runs when I wasn't on site. Not only is this poor behaviour from a safety point of view, it equates to some £3000 used in fuel this year alone for private - not public - "test" runs. Given I am the culpable person in that my name is on ALL the insurances, if there had been an incident and someone was injured or killed I would be facing criminal charges despite being 100 miles away at the time.
Speaking as the owner of the aircraft would you allow this to continue? I am no longer willing to let this happen so I have with the greatest reluctance removed ALL the insurances on the aircraft.
The SPT is now so divided that I doubt it can ever be brought back together. Weighing up all the above I feel I have had no choice but to call time on the work on WR963, and look to her preservation for future generations above all else.
As such I have to say that that brilliant dream of flight for the Shackleton is now gone.
Kind regards to all
Avro Shackleton WR963
Last edit: 30 Aug 2016 10:26 by stevie.
The following user(s) said Thank You: PETERTHEEATER, canberra
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- Dietmar Morley
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31 Aug 2016 20:11 #52
by Dietmar Morley
Replied by Dietmar Morley on topic Avro Shackleton
That is awful news. It's always sad to read how petty squabbles and ignorance of management requirements lead to the breakup of what could have been a great group dedicated to a great cause.
So sad.
So sad.
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- stevie
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06 Sep 2016 08:08 - 06 Sep 2016 08:08 #53
by stevie
Replied by stevie on topic Avro Shackleton
Another statement here from the chairman. Slightly more optimistic sounding this time though (Courtesy of Facebook again) -
Hello all,
I would like to thank you all very much for your support since I posted my statement regarding the issues surrounding Avro Shackleton WR963; the comments on Facebook and individual messages and e-mails have raised my spirits considerably. I want to reiterate that the statement covers what is the end of a chapter for the old Shackleton, but it is certainly not the end of the story.
As owner of the aircraft, I have no intention of leaving her to deteriorate. Over the course of the last few days I have talked long and hard with my wife, family and friends, and the consensus is that we have all invested too much time and effort into WR963 to give up now.
Plans are being made, and I will be taking further action be assured on that, though I do need time to be sure that I do the right thing for WR963, and her loyal supporters. I'll let you all know more in a short while.
So WATCH THIS SPACE!
Once again thank you all.
Dave Woods
Hello all,
I would like to thank you all very much for your support since I posted my statement regarding the issues surrounding Avro Shackleton WR963; the comments on Facebook and individual messages and e-mails have raised my spirits considerably. I want to reiterate that the statement covers what is the end of a chapter for the old Shackleton, but it is certainly not the end of the story.
As owner of the aircraft, I have no intention of leaving her to deteriorate. Over the course of the last few days I have talked long and hard with my wife, family and friends, and the consensus is that we have all invested too much time and effort into WR963 to give up now.
Plans are being made, and I will be taking further action be assured on that, though I do need time to be sure that I do the right thing for WR963, and her loyal supporters. I'll let you all know more in a short while.
So WATCH THIS SPACE!
Once again thank you all.
Dave Woods
Last edit: 06 Sep 2016 08:08 by stevie.
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- stevie
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30 Sep 2016 08:58 - 30 Sep 2016 08:59 #54
by stevie
Replied by stevie on topic Avro Shackleton
A further update & again, quite promising sounding. (from Facebook) -
Good evening all.
We are pleased to bring you the news that work on Avro Shackleton WR963 will resume in early October, with a hand picked team.
Its too early to say whether the Return to Flight can be resumed at this stage but it is not being written off. The immediate aim is to get WR963 back into her old monthly run-up schedule, and in the short term back to taxying as capably as she did last September, and more recently April this year.
We understand that some of you may have had your faith shaken by events over the past month or so, but would ask that you stick with us for the time being and see how we get on.
When we get back on track, the door to the aircraft will be open to visitors once again and you will - as always - be welcome.
Good evening all.
We are pleased to bring you the news that work on Avro Shackleton WR963 will resume in early October, with a hand picked team.
Its too early to say whether the Return to Flight can be resumed at this stage but it is not being written off. The immediate aim is to get WR963 back into her old monthly run-up schedule, and in the short term back to taxying as capably as she did last September, and more recently April this year.
We understand that some of you may have had your faith shaken by events over the past month or so, but would ask that you stick with us for the time being and see how we get on.
When we get back on track, the door to the aircraft will be open to visitors once again and you will - as always - be welcome.
Last edit: 30 Sep 2016 08:59 by stevie.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dietmar Morley
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- Dietmar Morley
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02 Oct 2016 13:42 #55
by Dietmar Morley
That is encouraging. Thanks for sharing Steve. It would quite something to have it flying again and I can just image the noise with it, two lancs and a mossie in formation!
Replied by Dietmar Morley on topic Avro Shackleton
A further update & again, quite promising sounding. (from Facebook) -
Good evening all.
We are pleased to bring you the news that work on Avro Shackleton WR963 will resume in early October, with a hand picked team.
Its too early to say whether the Return to Flight can be resumed at this stage but it is not being written off. The immediate aim is to get WR963 back into her old monthly run-up schedule, and in the short term back to taxying as capably as she did last September, and more recently April this year.
We understand that some of you may have had your faith shaken by events over the past month or so, but would ask that you stick with us for the time being and see how we get on.
When we get back on track, the door to the aircraft will be open to visitors once again and you will - as always - be welcome.
That is encouraging. Thanks for sharing Steve. It would quite something to have it flying again and I can just image the noise with it, two lancs and a mossie in formation!
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02 Oct 2016 15:14 #56
by Peter Kirk
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic Avro Shackleton
It was the first aircraft I saw at my first IAT Greenham Common air show in the early 70s. It was poodling around waiting to land.
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
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12 Oct 2016 22:17 #57
by stevie
Replied by stevie on topic Avro Shackleton
Can't grumble at this 
-
From the WR963 Faceache page -
It looks like this weekend is a good one for the Shackleton community. Our own WR963 at Coventry running on the Saturday, and our friends at Gatwick are reawakening WR982 "Juliet" on the Sunday!
So two opportunities to see and hear Griffons growling in the UK, in two days!! How long has it been since this was possible?
-From the WR963 Faceache page -
It looks like this weekend is a good one for the Shackleton community. Our own WR963 at Coventry running on the Saturday, and our friends at Gatwick are reawakening WR982 "Juliet" on the Sunday!
So two opportunities to see and hear Griffons growling in the UK, in two days!! How long has it been since this was possible?
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- stevie
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15 Oct 2016 15:59 - 14 Aug 2017 09:12 #58
by stevie
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Replied by stevie on topic Avro Shackleton
It was a really great to see those props turning once again on WR963 this afternoon. A few weeks ago it was looking like it may not happen ever again so a huge well done to the team -
Lets hope they can get the project back on track ASAP.
Steve
Lets hope they can get the project back on track ASAP.
Steve
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Last edit: 14 Aug 2017 09:12 by stevie.
The following user(s) said Thank You: REF, Chris Lowe, Dietmar Morley
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- Chris Lowe
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15 Oct 2016 21:26 #59
by Chris Lowe
English Civil War Re-enactor with the Sealed Knot.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
Replied by Chris Lowe on topic Avro Shackleton
Nice one, now to see it back in the air.
English Civil War Re-enactor with the Sealed Knot.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
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30 Jan 2018 12:21 #60
by DavidA.Smart
Replied by DavidA.Smart on topic Avro Shackleton
I had a Base Visit to Lossiemouth in either 1989/1990 and I have a funny thought it was WR963 in her days as an AEW.2 we were shown over and went inside, I am having a re-sort/ review of my Logs and Photos at the moment so will have a look and confirm if this proves correct.
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