RAF 'Y' Stations etc. Discussion Thread

Carnaby;147438 wrote:

I wonder exactly what an HDU was - possibly an innocuous name rather like the Chain Home stations were known as Air Ministry Experimental Stations?
The Bletchley Park list shows the RAF and Navy having HDUs, the Army, Foreign Office, RSS and Post Office didn't.

From SD161 July 1942:

In 62 Group No.63 Wireless Unit, West Kingsdown controlled the following HDUs:

Beachy Head, Folkestone, Gorleston, Scarborough, Shaftesbury, Simpsons Corner (Ingoldmells), Sittingbourne, Strete, Upton Grey.

Also unable to trace Simpsons Corner at Ingoldmells.

My understanding is that the HDUs were originally those coastal intercept stations set up specifically as an anti-invasion measure, their purpose being to intercept and interpret R/T (voice) traffic from German planes. They played an important role in the Battle of Britain, supplementing information from radar.

Carnaby;147438 wrote:

Also unable to trace Simpsons Corner at Ingoldmells.

The wartime Cassini reference for Ingoldmells HDU seems to be wG024884 which roughly translates to TF 560 696. This places the station just north of Anchor Lane in Ingoldmells. At the time there was a building called Rosary House which perhaps could have been used.

I can only assume that the sharp bend in the main road (A52 Chapel Road) to the south of the site was known as Simpsons Corner. There is a Simpson Court nearby now, so this seems plausible.

Looking through the various TNA copies I have:

In 1942 there were three 'Y' sites at Ingoldmells (Northern Command): G024884 (TF560696), G021884 (557696) and G024888 (560700)

One was described as a 'MF/HF D/F station', another was an 'Air Ministry W/T station'

Another document describes all three as 'Main Intercept Stations'.

All do not feature after 1942.

I have emailed a local school.

Hi Carnaby

A major site like Ingoldmells could have had HF and MF df stations as well as main intercept. The site is mentioned in "The Enemy is Listening" by Aileen Clayton. This is a very good source of RAF Y information and second hand copies are still available on usedbooksearch. The name "Home Defence Unit" was a cover name for the network of RAF Y stations controlled by Kingsdown and, together with Gorelston and Scarborough, Ingoldmells "monitored 95%" of GAF traffic in 1941. Perhaps some of the HDUs were closed as the local GAF activity decreased??

MF DF stations are very easy to spot and HF df stations less so on the 1945 aerial images and if anyone lives close enough to Lincoln there should be copies in the county archives. Major Universities like Oxford and Cambridge also have full UK collections. English Heritage also have a full collection and will sell you one for about £20!

I have made an enquiry with Lincoln archives and will let you know if I find anything.

Stan

Google Earth have just increased their 1940s coverage of aerial images. Kent County Council have provided Google with full coverage of the county dated "1940" and a second set dated "1960". I have found a number of WW2 Y stations and with some searching there should be more. DF stations stand out if you know what to look for here are two RSS df stations at Lydd, one HF and one MF.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33983550/WW2/Lydd%20MW%20DF.jpg

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33983550/WW2/LyddHF%20DF.jpg

This one is of the Foreign Office diplomatic intercept station at Knockholt that continued after W2 under GCHQ.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33983550/WW2/LyddHF%20DF.jpg

Doubtless there are more, Kent was a popular area for Y stations

Stan

Great info, Stan. I've ordered a copy of Clayton (all the cheapies are from the USA).

HDUs are mentioned in Kenneth Macksey's The Searchers (forgot I had a copy). It adds RAF HDUs monitored GAF traffic during Dunkirk which helped the evacuation. They also assisted the Navy in monitoring E-boat comms. I guess this explains why HDUs were restricted to the RAF and Navy (not the Army etc) as they were both responsible for Channel activities.

Later they monitored strange Luftwaffe messages which proved to be the beginning of the air-to-ground comms as the Kammhuber defence system began to take shape.

Stirring stuff.

Carnaby
Yes, Macksey's The Searchers is another good source, it was one of the first books I bought when I started delving into wireless interception. I found some information about GPO St Albans Radio (local) that was doing covert interception even before WW2.

I have just noticed that the last of the image links I provided was wrong, the Knockholt station image can be found at -

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33983550/WW2/Knockholt%20FO.jpg

I have also found the Army MF df station at Sutton Valence

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33983550/WW2...0vallence%20MFDF.jpg

I have received a holding reply from Lincolnshire archives about the aerial images of Ingoldmells, will let you know if anything useful comes of it. There were quite a few on the Lincs. coast.

Martin (Briscoe)
Thanks for the note about "The Enigmatic Sailor".

Some time ago there was a discussion here about Monks Risborough Y station. I have just found a document from August 1944 about this station stating that they were transferring their interest to from "F tasks" to "CROAT TANKS". This is not the first time I have seen evidence of Y stations of one service doing work for another service. Any comments from the forum would be welcome.

Stan

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You got my brow furrowed there Stan. Croat tanks (sic) should read Croat tasks whatever they were.